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tv   The Big Picture With Thom Hartmann  RT  August 28, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm EDT

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i'll tell margaret in washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on a special edition of the big picture americans on all sides of the political spectrum are having a tough time understanding all the intricacies of obamacare will sort through the nitty gritty of president obama's landmark legislation and talk about what obamacare means for you later in the show we'll talk to dan balz of the washington post about his new book collision twenty twelve which looks back at the election of two thousand and twelve and gives us a glimpse at the future of elections in america and we'll revisit my conversations with great minds with dr cornel west author professor and democratic intellectual
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and no for you my new book the crash of twenty sixteen the plot to destroy america and what we can do to stop it is now available for preorder at all online retailers like amazon dot com and your local bookstore so go check it out. here to help us sort through the nitty gritty of obamacare is karen davenport director of health policy of the national women's law center and ethan rome executive director of health care for america now ethan good to have you both with us tonight it's good to be let's just start at the beginning and in fact karen let me begin with you what happens in october what happens in january what is it that people need to know about and get ready for i realize it's a huge question you see there's a couple of land mileposts kerrick i'm no fan of starting october people can enroll in health coverage through health insurance exchange their health insurance marketplace they may sometimes be called or their state may have. a different name
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like california is called covering california for example. and they can also if they have low income and their state has chosen to expand coverage the medicaid program they can also enroll in medicaid for coverage to start january one as well in both cases where they are they sign up for private coverage the exchange or where they be enrolled in the medicaid program if their state is is doing that coverage will start january first and that's the next milestone in addition to coverage starting a number of important insurance reforms come into play starting january first for example as you were just mentioning people with preexisting conditions who today can't necessarily get into the insurance marketplace they will be guaranteed coverage insurance plans won't be able to turn them down at that point. and. apropos of this when i when i announced a week or so ago we're going to dig into this subject again a lot of a lot of feedback as you can imagine one was an e-mail from
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a friend of mine. who pointed out that he lives in michigan and michigan has said no thanks to two medicaid money and. he said if you live in one and a half times a year atter below par with your whatever you know where you would be eligible for medicaid and you live in a state where that medicaid eligibility has not been extended so there won't be an obamacare. medicaid option available to you as there will be in all the other states what do you do you go in and buy it on the exchange and then get a tax credit is is that the option and if so how does that work there is a medical need to do things which one is that for the people there are some people that are going to be that will be caught between the eligibility for the medicaid expansion if it's not occur. in some of those folks the period where you come into the folks between two hundred one hundred thirty eight percent of poverty would be able to purchase insurance on the exchange for our folks. who will get caught and
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that's why it's so important that we continue to fight in these states to expand medicaid because otherwise it's putting pressure on overburdened community health centers and hospitals that it's continuing to put pressure and which is particularly frustrating because in a state like michigan or any others that are always set up folks the way to think about this law is it does two things and the first is that it improves health insurance coverage for the eighty five percent of us who have it and the second is that provides coverage for those that don't and it does the through the marketplaces the through medicaid expansion and in the way that it does that is to make coverage affordable. for you i was just going to add you know people ethan's absolutely right people would be caught in a coverage gap if people should not people should not sort of prejudge where they might fall both because they may end up qualifying for help with tax credits to
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purchase coverage in exchange and also because they may already be eligible for the medicaid program and not know it and not be enrolled so you know it's really worth people's time on october first to find out even if their state is not expanding coverage through medicaid to see if they may be able to get coverage either in the new marketplace or in the existing medicaid program it is tough for the people who are caught in that coverage gap that people shouldn't assume they will fall into deeper. because of what i do for a living i'm on all the right wing mailing lists as you can imagine and for some time i've been getting this fairly there's four or five versions of them they all were quite credible but they're just so extreme these viral e-mails that talk about how the i.r.s. is a new police force that just bought a billion ball it's you know you hear these records right they just bought a billion bullets is going to be coming to your home to determine whether or not you have insurance and. whether or not your children are vaccinated and if you
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daughter they don't they're going to and i'm just kind of the blowing this off i thought nobody would take this seriously today on our radio we do i do a three hour radio show every day as well as a t.v. show and on the radio show we do this in the last the third hour and i probably got twenty calls from people asking variations of that dead serious i mean people people out there in red state america are getting this and this is the only information they have are their obamacare police is the iris going to show up at your house are there in force in provisions that can actually lead you to go to jail. no no no no i think are the short answers to that. we've certainly heard that go to jail thing a lot too there is starting on january first there is a requirement that people have health insurance there are exceptions for people who are low income or can't find affordable coverage by the way that will be enforced is through our tax system and you know just as you you owe taxes on the income that
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you have earned if you do not have health insurance you will panel t. and it will be enforced that way not through so many of the other larger companies measure so basically if you don't have insurance or taxes go up by a much well in the first year it's ninety five dollars or the entire year or one percent of your income whichever is larger that goes up over the next couple years alternately will be two and a half percent of your income so it of course depends how much you make will determine how large your penalty will be. there are also exceptions for that like if i understand it if the cost of health insurance is more than nine percent of your income you don't have to buy insurance and if you and i mean i think but the thing i want to stress is that these are really good questions and they but they relate in part through a narrow slivers of folks and so the main thing is if you do not have health insurance. you need to call the call center line that you're going to hear about
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right if you have anybody knocking on your door about health care they're going to be part of the enrollment process they're going to have people doing outreach looking that's happening all over the country even in the red states even in states like texas right where rick perry is doing everything in his power to make sure that no one in his state gets insurance but twenty five percent of the people in the state don't have it but there's a you nor miss national collaborative of hospitals providers insurers health care organizations all working together to reach out to make sure that people know about the program and and how. are people best another's health care is this website. i also again we got a couple calls today from people who said i'm disabled or an elderly or i don't have a lot of money and i literally can't get on the internet one of those people. there
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is i mean there's a number of things one is that there will be there will be call centers and they'll be numbers that people are able to call the second is that a lot of those people are already eligible for different programs and so they may have caregivers that they can that they can talk to already so this stuff is not going to be a secret no if you know and it's also you know lots of people are going to be talking to family members who are getting who already have coverage or family members who know about this but i mean if we go back to where you started about the i.r.s. knocking on your door and all this kind of business right right now there's an enormous amount of misinformation and there's still not a lot of information that's that's that's punching through and that's going to change that's going to change the closer that we get to october first because a lot of people say to me gosh why or why aren't people doing more to broadcast the program and there is there's a lot of education and information but the best time to be the. and there's really
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close to tober first because of our talk to news that you know that sounds like a great big i really want to roll the best thing this is for me to be able to help you with a role right that in there. there's we talked about one hundred thirty eight percent. of above the level of poverty but there's also programs available for people up to four hundred percent of the poverty level one i think in the united states a family of three at nineteen thousand four hundred a year is the poverty line so that would be for a family of three almost eighty thousand dollars a year if you made anything under that you qualify for tax credits tax credits or where the government writes you a check rather than just more of a tax deduction how does that work and how do people learn about so what that tax credit will do is they will reduce what you owe your health insurance plan in terms of premiums a recent study from the kaiser family foundation showed that if people who buy insurance insurance in the individual market today for those folks who qualify for subsidies the subsidies that cover about two thirds of their health insurance
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premiums i would say that check directly to the health insurance company or will people have to pay for it out of pocket and at the end i hope they have enough money that at the end of the year they can get it back so that's sort of back and part of it will be money going to the health insurance exchange which will then send those subsidies out to the health insurance plans when you're signing out. you'll know that you're eligible for help but you won't need to deal with that part of the transaction so you'll need to pay your portion of the premium but that you should deal with the subsidy so you will then you know when you file your taxes for the next year if there's any difference in what you were thinking that you would make versus. what you really made will be some reconciliation but it's should be really pretty seamless and easy for people and one of the ways to find out if you qualify for that or not is to go to your health insurance exchange on to their website. or call the call center they can was talking about or even
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a community based organization where you live that is helping people enroll they can all help you apply the term thank you so much. for the good lady committed.
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looking for every dollar from the field that we won't find it here if you're looking for relevant stories we need perspective from tom my scans are easy. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so for lengthly you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm sorry welcome to the big picture . here is mitt romney trying to figure out the name of that thing that we americans call a dollar. i'm sorry i'm just
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a guy who cares an awful lot of money you sir are a fool you know what kind of silly neighborhood wants us to feature isn't a liberal the christian. suitably the voters. are going to look are going to distract us from what you and i should care about because they're profit driven industry that sells a sensationalistic garbage he calls it breaking news i'm having martin and we're going to break that. in the best of the rest of the news we may be eleven one hundred seventy six days away from the twenty sixteen elections but we are already beginning to get a glimpse at what the twenty sixteen presidential campaign might look like on the
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democratic side of the aisle all bets are on hillary clinton being the democratic nominee for president although president joe biden in new york governor andrew cuomo are also on the some pundits short list meanwhile the republican picture isn't so clear chris christie continues to maintain his presidential hopeful status senators rand paul of kentucky marco rubio of florida and ted cruz of texas are also making waves in the presidential pool twenty sixteen presidential candidates on both sides of the aisle will try to avoid the same mistakes made by two thousand and twelve candidates mistakes which in many cases provide prove to be campaign killers and while two thousand and sixteen hopefuls may look to the two thousand and twelve election cycle for lessons and advice what can we the people take away from two thousand and twelve as we look ahead to the future of elections in america joining me now for more on that is dan balz veteran political correspondent with the washington post and author of the new book collision twenty twelve obama versus romney and the future of elections in america dan welcome back to the program thank
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you for your like the future of elections in america i mean that's that's well it's also is the portentious the right word it's a it's a big word we have seen radical changes in our lifetime in how the whole actions in fact just in the last generation the last fifteen twenty years in how elections are conducted in the united states what is the biggest of those changes in your mind well i i think in this in this election there were a number of things that we saw which we are going to continue to see one is in the kind of the. the symbols of politics the way the obama campaign organized itself its use of data mining in analytics and modeling of the electorate all of the technology it put to use to try to develop the most sophisticated get out the vote operation is something that every campaign that's thinking about two thousand and twelve is looking at. but there are other aspects of this but one is obviously the
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rise of super pacs. the role of money in politics is always an issue but i think what we saw in the changes between two thousand and four two thousand and eight and particularly two thousand and twelve is that there is this rise of these super pacs which are aiding particular candidates which are able to take huge individual contributions from people million two million five million ten million dollars from an individual they have the ability to keep alive a candidate who otherwise might be forced to the sidelines for lack of money they have the ability to attack and destroy a candidate as mitt romney was able to do at least temporarily with newt gingrich so that's another thing i think another aspect of this election that looks to the future. is the changing demographics of this country and you can look at politics from the inside out and you can also look at it from outside in and there were several big forces that in two thousand and twelve i think asserted themselves in a significant way one is the changing demographics which at this point unless the
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republicans can find a different way of going about it gives a slight wind at the back of the other democrats in presidential elections the other thomas this red blue divide that we talk about it's almost become a cliche in this country we talk about red and blue america and yet i think in this election it showed that red got a little redder and blue got a little bluer and it's one of the reasons we continue to have this kind of paralysis that we see in washington there as you mentioned super pacs working for candidates and you mentioned the obama campaign running a very very sophisticated get out the vote organization. get out the vote is kind of the last part of it i realize that. in fact in your book you point out that for four years they had been working on this thing and made to basically didn't stop and the perpetual campaign really began several cycles several presidents ago with really with the reagan presidency explicitly but but get out the vote has to follow convince the voters to vote for your guy and how much of the sophisticated
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technology that your chronicle wing is used to change opinions or to motivate people or in the cases of negative advertising and push polling to demotivate people to encourage them not to even bother showing their albums how much of that is that versus getting people to the polls well it's interesting in part because of the divisions we see there is i think more effort that now goes into motivating your supporters and a little less into persuading people because there are fewer people who can actually be persuaded i mean one of the interesting things we saw in this in this election was i remember i was attending a focus group that peter hart the pollster was conducting for the university of pennsylvania's annenberg center this was late in the election probably mid october of two thousand and twelve ten undecided voters quote unquote chosen because they were they said they were undecided as peter went around the room during that two hour conversation it was clear that of those ten undecided voters there were only
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four people who were truly undecided the most people at this point if you say i'm a republican it's pretty clear where you're going to end up voting and similarly with democrats now having said that the obama campaign spent a lot of money on research on focus groups on a particular project that they called ethno journaling in which they ask people to fill out journals about their financial situation and their sense of economic security all as a way to develop a message that leapfrog over the issue of what do people think about barack obama's handling of the economy and move. moved to a debate that they thought was much more favorable to them versus mitt romney which was which of these two candidates do you think understands your life which of these two candidates do you think will be better for your family not just six months from now but two years from now or five years of the working middle class was written to get a little absolutely it became it became a debate about who the middle class would trust and if you looked at the exit polls
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. that that question had a significant advantage so. it sounds like what you're saying is that the silo ization of america or the rigidity of the region of occasion i don't know if an event. in our political world is becoming more and more. rigid yes and and so it's just a matter of pulling those people out to what what accounts for that rigidity is this these silos ation of our media is it that the republicans are all watching fox news the democrats are all watching m s n b c or that's that's that's part of it people now tend to live in areas where there are like minded people i mean there are some political demographers and geographers who have looked at this and there is a kind of what they call sorting out geographically where people live. but there also
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is this this ability to now live in a world in which you get and give information from like minded people or from like minded sources and so if you if you if you want to go through life without having your views challenge it any way you can easily do that and in fact that tends to reinforce attitudes that people have some of the degree to which the media has fractured i mean there's no there's no single media. operation that now has the kind of influence that we used to see you know three decades ago when it was n.b.c. a.b.c. and c.b.s. that created a community discussion in those days are long gone. so it has it has left us in a much different situation and therefore those lines become rigid i don't know whether there's anything on the horizon that's going to move us away from that i think we are in this period for now it took a while to get here it seems to be for now the way we are now it's almost a pretty civil war kind of thing and it's it's you can spend today with the
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internet you can spend a half hour an hour two hours three hours reading a whole variety of media websites and have them all be on the left or all be on the right and i debate conservatives on this program and on my radio program regularly and it astounds me how often i don't know their buzzwords and they don't know mine i mean that literally we're living in different worlds that when the whole benghazi thing you know when they're all i started cranking that stuff up i didn't have a clue what was going on and i had republicans coming on and they just drop a couple of words and just figure debate over you know and so what i mean we we very much talk past people and there's another thing that that struck me during the campaign when i was out talking to voters and that is if you would ask somebody who was a mitt romney supporter what do you think is at stake in this election what happens if barack obama gets reelected to a second term. their view was that there was almost apocalyptic i mean that this was in a sense the end of the america that they believed in the america that they felt had made you know this country the envy of the world if you talk to people who were
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barack obama supporters and ask them the exact same question their view of mitt romney winning coupled with the republicans having control of the house and perhaps taking over the senate was similarly dire in their view was that republicans would take this country and they would undermine so many of the gains of much of the progress that they have seen well you look at north carolina right now and i think there's some legitimacy to check well i mean we're seeing i mean we're i mean word paralysis in washington but in the states you have red governance and you have blue governments and states are going in different directions as as developed and put into law. single payer health care system there just waiting for it to be allowed under obamacare and north carolina is aggressively disenfranchising people and not taking medicare money and it's you know it could be characterized negatively or positively on both sides i suppose but each side believes that the path it is following is for the greater good sure sure and i think that we have to acknowledge
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that in the context of not necessarily vilifying people but rather identifying those perspectives but it's kind of a balkanization well it is a challenge is how do you i mean how do you how do you how do you talk of how do you talk through that how do you how do you get people to reengage on those larger questions and to some extent you know i called this book collision two thousand and twelve because it was a collision between the america that elected barack obama in two thousand and eight and the and the america that elected republicans to control the house in two thousand and ten two parties with very different views about some of the basic questions facing the country you look to a presidential election to help resolve those differences and yet partly because the candidates never quite stepped up to it but also because the passions were so deeply felt that we got through the selection even though the president was a fairly clean victory and a big victory in the electoral college it didn't change much. which which speaks.
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and now well of twenty fourteen twenty sixteen it seems well let's. check out the book collision two thousand and twelve romney versus obama obama versus romney in the future of elections in america dan thanks for masturbates thank you for charting with me on the left are actually it's. one of the obama supporters to the phones on mr miller. for tonight's politically correct that i'm correcting fox so-called news earlier this month governor jerry brown of california signed into law a measure that prohibits. public schools in that state from barring transgender students access to school facilities like bathrooms and locker rooms and to athletic teams that correspond with their gender identity since brown signed the bill so called news has launched an all out fearmonger in its act to smear the law and the government take a look. students
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as showing as kindergartners will be able to choose whether they would like to use the boys or girls restrooms based on their gender identity. those opposed say we're going too far with students it actually hurts the general population as a whole they say the kids could potentially could take advantage of this and parents will have to start worrying about boys showering with girls and vice versa i don't even know where to begin what do we do with the seven year old girl that goes into the locker room and there's a fourteen year old boy naked in the girls' locker room because that's where he chooses to be i think all of the problem here is that all of the concerns about the law that foxes are raised are based on a high a highly flawed conservative talking point really a bigoted talking point for instance there is no credible research not even common sense that would suggest that male students are going to pretend to be transgender
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so that they can sneak into a girl's bathroom and these conservative talking points help to fuel look the rasp went and the abuse that many transgender children and adults face each and every day rather than having a serious discussion about the law and its implications chose to use their talking heads to disperse mountains of misinformation and that's why the so called news network has been politically correct.
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i think a little worse goes to. the white house because of. what . i'm told.
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is it possible to navigate the economy with all the details and specifics in misinformation and media hype will keep you up to date by decoding the mainstream states and if in your. furtherance conversations with great minds i'm joined by dr cornel west a self described champion of justice through the traditions of the black church dr west as one of america's most important public intellectuals and a fierce advocate for democracy he currently serves as the professor of philosophy and christian practice at union theological seminary and is the author of twenty books including the classics race matters and democracy matters dr cornel west
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joins us now from our new york studios dr west it's an honor to have you with us thank you so much for the lesson for you to have me yeah. yeah. what what started you know we we've. we both saw of each other a number of times over the years you know you know my show and speaking venues and things but i've never had an opportunity to really get in a conversation with you about what got you started on the path that led you to were you are now what sparked your interest. in both politics and religion. though to be quite honest no but it has to do with living in the middle of the american empire and wrestling with divisions legacy of white supremacy i grew up in california i was born into a home. was deeply affected by lynching the going back to family deeply affected by it not just discrimination but jim crow and jim crow in america very unique and distinctive it was the terrorizing of the traumatising it was
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a stigmatizing of black people but of course it was connected to genocidal attacks on indigenous peoples and marginalization of brown people then subordination a working peoples of all colors all but also from the very beginning the legacy of martin king and fannie lou hamer and ella baker and in the black panther party fundamentally shaped who and what i am. was there any particular moment in your life or event in your life or around you in the world at large that caused you to say ok i'm going to do this i'm going to go in history or this this has to be my next no i think it was of the death of the king june aberforth one nine hundred sixty eight something deep inside of my heart in the heart of many people the special black people but people to call it and a question of what would be resurrected what would be reinvigorated given that bush is murder in this nation of martin king and it was also connected of course to the death of so many anonymous and nameless people struggling at the time and of course
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assassinations of malcolm x. and. variety of the fred hampton's and bobby the black panther party but the sense of people who were willing to forfeit their lives. for the furtherance of truth and justice those of that's the language that you know of john brown them a second eight hundred fifty nine the last speech that he gave that spirit of being willing to pay the ultimate cause for a cause greater than one's own self-interest yeah. and in that context in their frame i'm curious if you. see any parallels between what happened to emmett till and what happened to trayvon martin. well no doubt no doubt that you know by the immaterial as you know precious precious brother from chicago with the book that jim crow mississippi was shot down like a dog with the old jim crow the jim crow that was legalized of the american law as
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you know given your magnificent work my brother was american law to not just criminalize black people but to terrorize and. traumatize black people with rather trayvon martin is under the new jim crow where young black males especially poor black males and females are criminalized it demeaned their degraded as a form of soul murder that enables physical murder as in the case of the zimmerman i still call it a murder us to call it a killing in that sense no matter what the law say is that do not accept races vertica don't accept races jurors but i recognize they have to come to terms with the reality of those kind of verdicts and jurors decisions but there is parallel as in the sense that the old jim crow in new jim crow and this is this is part and parcel of not just affecting black people but affecting working people it makes it very difficult of course the people of different colors to come together and keep track of the oligarchs keep track of the plutocrats move around the world and it
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makes it very difficult for white liberals and black liberals to gain a footing in a context and with the truth about their hypocrisy is more and more disclose and. well i want to get into the hypocrisy in just a second but just to finish on the jim crow theory my running colleague joe madison was here a couple days ago and he said you know it's no longer jim crow it's now james crow e.s.q. and and. and to its certain extent that that it's it's more subtle more pulling away we see what the supreme court we see with all these states and change all these laws and it makes it i think harder for average white people who who don't have much contact with the issues and don't think about these issues it's not the same kind of in your face stuff we saw when you and i were young you know back in the sixty's and seventy's. how do we cut through that how do we expose that
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it seems like the trayvon martin murder and the george zimmerman trial has at least cracked open that conversation but it's got to be a lot more than that does it not know that's true that's true but i want to come back to whether bill madison he does a magnificent job down in washington d.c. is the black eagle but there is a difference between james esquire jr that holds for the black middle classes because it's not in the face of the black middle classes and the children but for the black poor and their children the new jim crow is just as in your face would stop and frisk as you know dixon number of others and most of what the jail just a year or so ago to try to highlight stop and frisk where they've had over they've had millions of young brothers and sisters who are stopped and frisked only about four percent have any connection to any crime it's been seven hundred thousand every year that's in your face the it's the exponential explosion in the president
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is too complex is in your face sixty two percent of those precious brother lives this is the roll call of the disposer black and brown of there because of soft drug offenses white community thirteen within the white community take drugs. with the black youth it takes drugs over fifty five percent of the convictions are black so the mass incarceration which is a class of course race and class and race being inexplicably into it is as in your face as the old jim crow so that the james esque. our junior is at work for black professionals but in terms of the black poor the new jim crow has been vicious and in the black liberal leadership harley says anything about the new jim crow because you want her to you hear brother broke obama say i'm i'm one word about the. new jim crow whatsoever so when you talk about we're a nation of laws welcoming it's a joke in terms of the levels of lawlessness of the united states wall street
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criminals lot and whole for them not one executive going to jail. the wiretap or is the law to know for them under the torture of the law and hold for them all the corruption that we know at the top the wickedness at the top hardly touched but when it comes to criminality the zero in on the weak zero in on the most vulnerable in that's new jim crow and ed new jim crow was vicious raul course and brutal james esquire jr for the black middle classes brown middle classes very very weak but still operating as it were i mean you know what i consider the kind of thing we witnessed in the last twenty years the kind of really nigger is a shit of the black professional class now in the history of america have so many black people have so much money power status but never in the history of black america have so many black professionals been afraid intimidated deferential to
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power supply subservient to the status quo we used to have elements of black pit bulls was it ever tell the truth or not churches in the lawyers and doctors now so many of them a bought off so many of my selling out and it's a sad thing to see that's what i mean by the moral bankruptcy of so much of the black liberals in the black professional class we can bounce back but we have to tell the truth about who and barack obama in many ways is exemplary of that moral bankruptcy and that. moral inconsistency in terms of turning his back to the new jim crow turning his back to the black poor turning his back to those folks who are dealing with brutal circumstances privatizing of education you see in decent housing. in a indescribable levels of massive unemployment and underemployment of people who haven't been employed for years upon years don't even figure not even on the radar
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screen in the statistics that come out of the labor department they're suffering totally invisible ines the kind of thing that deeply deeply upsets me as you can imagine my book you talk about liberal hypocrisy. and. you just i had not heard at length you speak before about liberal hypocrisy within the african-american community but certainly spoken about it within the white community is there a fundamental difference between the two. oh sure sure namely because of course black liberals to have to deal to this is legacy of white supremacy and you see it on m.s.n. b.c. in the last few days that the hurt is genuine among the black professionals is genuine among the black upper middle classes because racism in a white supremacy is still very real this vicious some people say well for the first time i feel some alienation from the state i feel over against my government you don't say well just put a little time in the prisons been a time on the blocks been
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a little time among people who have been wrestling with the underside of the american empire for the last thirty years with this class war from above one sided against poor and working people of all call of stagnating wages and profits going up but this particular issue of trayvon martin where the raul very raul and poor side of the repressive apparatus of the u.s. a nation state and its imperial tentacles becomes unavoidable becomes yet. i have to you have to confront it and so black liberals then have a capacity i think to be good to see something that many white liberals may not see because they're children of course still not subject to stop and frisk still not subject to the kind of thing the brother trayvon martin had to go through i think because a lot of white liberals was told or even understand why privileges. you say what i said i think there are a lot of white liberals who still don't even understand the concept of white no no
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i think that's true i think what we do. well we've got to. teach we've got to embrace because they still have the capacity to be progressive but you just don't trust them and you tell the truth that it's a brutal truth it's a painful truth and they accept it and grow or they don't accept it and live in a state of denial which is often the case of course you got right wing that we can't forget about i mean you've got eleven hundred white supremacist militia groups in america that's one thing that upset me about my disgust a side issue cool one of the grand black freedom fighters in the sixty's with the obama administration in their cold is justice department put a two million dollars bounty on her he it on the terrorist list the top ten terrorist list all of the white supremacist militia groups all of the various folks terrorizing indigenous peoples. peoples brown peoples none of them on the list but as a side issue coors on the list how hypocritical can you get that's what i mean by the
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moral bankruptcy of black liberalism and blacks and it's interesting but the but you have to just tell the truth as you know i'm a christian no brother i'm a revolutionary christian i'm a jesus loving free black man coming out of the legacy of martin king which means that i. acknowledge that no matter where one is at the moment one can potentially be better therefore you don't allow one's whole humanity to be defined as where one is at a particular moment people can change this. group. over time magnificent all of us are undergoing change and transformation i don't like to freeze any of us at a particular moment but i do believe this my brother the depths of muscle. i believe that a child. in pakistan. yemen and somalia has exactly the same status as a child and newtown connecticut in the south side of chicago in koreatown in the brown barrio. own indigenous peoples reservation i am an internationalist across
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the bullock a doctor was we were coming out our legs it includes the root he was we were part of a part and forgive my interrupt you but we've got to take notice that will be able to write about more of tonight's conversations with great minds of dr cornel west right after the break. to. others through a few. changes. to the picture. from.
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you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so. you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize that everything is ok. i'm sorry welcome to the big picture.
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and welcome back to conversations in my city speaking with dr cornel west professor of philosophy at christian practice at the union theological seminary and professor emeritus at princeton university dr was welcome back first of all when we had to take a break at the. oddities of television or whatever and we just had to cut in there and you were in the middle of a of a of a really good riff about being an inner. nationalist children around the world and the obligation of americans of all colors very well but i don't want to put words
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in your mouth you want to finish that thought and share. what brought you to that observation and where do you think we all should be going from that. i think that a lot of the roads to internationalism flatter rose to universal than for me as a christian it has to do with the cross and across the necks and bodies on condition. of unconditional love on the one hand and on truth and condition of truth is to allow suffering to speak so anybody from the concerned about truth from a concern about injustice is what looks like in public in the way in which tend to this is what love feels like in private when you go to be an internationalist and this is what i mean by trayvon martin has exactly the same status as that new baby that will be born with royalty in england with that precious doll it rather than in india with those in east timor with those anywhere in the world as it were and we
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always have to test our leaders i mean is is that the case that president obama has a commitment to justice for trayvon martin but the same level as intensity as he does in persecuting brother bradley manning and brother edward snowden but you see for me it's quite ironic that you get black president black leaders who on the one hand talk about their connection to the struggle for black freedom when you see brother bradley manning and brother edward snowden they all the john brown's of the u.s. national security state of the u.s. massive surveillance state in the same way my dear brother the blue and green wall and chris my brother chris hedges they are all the way in lloyd garrison of the u.s. national security state which is to say i use the paradigm of the struggle for black freedom as a struggle for freedom of everyone. and you have those will in the forward their lives manning. those will within the tell the truth against unbelievable bourbon
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cutting against the grain green wall hedges and we get at some other the well known make line and glynn for the dear brother bruce dixon and margaret. millie bailey and margaret kimberly of the black agenda. the magnificent raid what is it the black agenda report that's what it is. these are the folks who all the who of the witness bears and it's very difficult for their voices to surface but if they don't surface. in a world of trouble but we are you mention and speaking to that use you mentioned the zimmerman trial we've we've touched upon it very briefly up to this point but i'm curious first of all just in general your thoughts on the acquittal of george zimmerman and more specifically it seemed quite clear to me that there were two
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standards of justice that basically two people were put on trial at the same time that george zimmerman was on trial for killing trayvon martin but trayvon martin was on trial for being such a threat to george zimmerman that he was worthy of being shot and the standard of justice that was explicit in the trial and explicit in the media and i couldn't figure out why nobody was had their head exploding around this was that george zimmerman was held to the standard of oh if he was afraid he should have shot but the standard of justice that was being held for trayvon martin was a poet he was afraid he should iran. what the hell is going to. this is what i meant was he criminalize the people then it's not just dehumanizing but it means those who are in power to do what they will in order to preserve themselves or their will and could have done nearly anything in order to busy. himself once he's perceived as dealing with a criminalized person minnes villain
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a gangster as it were and you keep in mind i mean the criminal justice system in america historically has been itself criminal when it comes to black people and people of color i mentioned before two hundred forty four years slavery was a lot of land for most one hundred years jim crow was the law of the land so therefore as a nation of laws it was deeply white supremacist law that was races laws and under a new jim crow especially as it relates to polies of police power vis a vis the black poor it's still criminal so that the criminal justice system itself is criminal in terms of its treatment but is not a crime based on the criminal justice system and that's where the legality and morality depart. that's where the law itself lacks any ethical content where the man with the king jr went to jail in birmingham said the laws are themselves criminal and the behavior of the police are criminal also martin to say in a letter from a birmingham jail and that's precisely what we must say today but we must say loved
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this is very important you see of love is not in and it's all sounding brass and think symbol is not about hating. george zimmerman it's about hating the white supremacy inside of him as hating the criminalising proclivities inside of him a lot of secular left as well as this is don't like me saying this but i have to speak the truth on the stand and i don't believe that a hating a person that the pulls the hating of systems of global all the dark excess of the matter where they are it could be and states can be russia they can be as south africa they can be in and south america where ever they are all the darky plutocracy must be called into question wherever every day people are wherever ordinary working people are they must be supported their humanity must be affirmed over against these oligarchic systems and. same is true in the united states but as you know in united states we we we have tremendous challenges in terms of the law
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that we're willing to live under and the crime that we're willing to do to often be indifferent toward i mean you know u.s. drones over two hundred innocent brothers and sisters in pakistan and yemen and somalia and counting no serious debate about it you know manning discloses the the video and those who invaded who were involved in a crime go free the person who exposed the crime be sent to jail for life i mean this is the level of hypocrisy that we're dealing with and this is been a challenge ever since the founding of this nation and the who own the progressive side of history will just go down swinging like muhammad ali. on the tell the truth and bear witness to this you know can we talk about partisan politics for a second. tour the i had dinner the other day with a friend who's who used to be a republican and still is fairly well connected in those circles
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a white republican and he said the gerrymandering that's going on is that there's a lot of people scratching their heads looking at all the republican gerrymander in school and i'm trying to figure out why republicans would go into a congressional district that's already consistently electing democrats and still keep it democratic but they would move a lot of african-americans in that district and he finally confronted somebody about this what's going on and what came back and again this is second hand this may not be the case but this is and i thought what came back was our goal over the next twenty years is people think long our goal over the next two censuses is to try to make sure try to get to the point where virtually every elected democratic official big democratic official has a black face so that the democratic party. is perceived as the party of black people so we're going to take white congressional districts moving up black those
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districts that a white person be replaced by a black person and that we won't have to do anything about racism the intrinsic and inherent racism subtle racism that white people don't even realize they have will come out and that'll be the end of the democratic party eight you think that's a crazy conspiracy theory although it seems to me that that's actually what they're doing and if so what are we here what are your thoughts of it. well i mean you know the republicans would do anything to grab power but democrats are doing it in the power to i mean my assumption is i reached a point in my life my brother where i think the two party system in the american embodied in the merican political system system itself is dying that both parties themselves are just so vacuous when it comes to any kind of serious moral witness the big money to the big corporations the tide the big banks they are slight differences between them in terms of social issues so our press is gay brothers and sisters yes they must be protected they must be supported women must be protected
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and supported but when it comes to the issues of poverty it is a bipartisan consensus neither party is talking about it all when it comes to the president of the complex have you heard any party say anything about the hunger strike in california you know thirty thousand fold torture it's torture solitary confinement long sustains all of their confinement older forms of torture and not among them were you see the bipartisan consensus toward snowden you see the bipartisan consensus in terms of wall street democratic party obama themselves tied to walls be bailing out wall street not bailing out homeowners not supporting the trade union movement manipulated trade union movement in the way you manipulate black folks other so-called special interest groups in the democratic party both parties at this point just so more abundance strikes me that we need either social motion of social activism on the outside or fundamental transformation of a new party all. a break off where it's similar to what would happen eight hundred fifty s.
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a break off from both parties the coming together i do like small elements of the libertarian. perspective i am a libertarian to read which rights and liberties must be essential and part of the dividing line these days is between authoritarian government that is undermining rights and liberties and those who are defending rights and liberties and you can be a rand paul who talks about drones only relation american citizens not not american civilians but we need to talk about both but i'm with the rand paul but rand paul and i would agree would about what yeah you know we rebel five or six percent but the libertarian element is really important that's impossible realignment between progressives in those who are concerned about rights and liberty but the two party system for me is. about to go on in terms of its effect the midst of i think i think you nailed it dr cornell west thank you so much for being with us tonight thank you and i salute you my brother thank you have great to see this and other conversations with great minds go to our website and conversations and create points dot com.
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wealthy british style. market why not. find out what's really happening to the global economy with my next concert no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to conjure reports on our. the pledge was a terrible mistake and led very hard to make our lives once again the among their peers a club that never had sex without hurting their feelings let alone
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dot com. coming up on r t the world watches to see if the u.s. will launch a military strike against syria the u.s. and allies insist that syria has used chemical weapons on its own people more the latest developments ahead. and there's a new case of racial profiling with t.s.a. airport security a man was detained for hours without food or water he was interrogated and much more a look at flying while muslim coming up. we hold these truths to be self-evident. that all men are creativity and today is the fiftieth anniversary of the nine hundred sixty three march on washington a day when many americans learned of the dream but fifty years later is the dream realized an in-depth look ahead at today's event.


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